Plato's Meno

Tossa Cromwell
October 24, 2009

The opening of Plato's Meno reads:

MENO: Can you tell me, Socrates, can virtue* be taught? Or is it not teachable but the result of practice, or is it neither of these, but men possess it by nature or in some other way?

(*a footnote on the word virtue in the textbook I have reads: The Greek word is arete. It can refer to specific virtues such as moderation, courage, etcetera, but it is also used for the virtue or conglomeration of virtues that makes a man virtuous or good. In this dialogue it is mostly used in this more general sense. Socrates himself at times uses "good" as equivalent to virtuous.)

(Here is an online version of this text: classics.mit.edu/Plato/meno.html)

One of the most interesting arguments put forth in this dialogue is that there is no such thing as learning or teaching. Instead, there is only recollection of what we already know (or knew in previous lives). Although I don't believe in reincarnation, I do like the concept that knowledge is not learned as much as it is recollected. I would rephrase that somewhat and say that we "realize" what the truth is, instead of being "taught". True learning is realization. Hearing words or watching demonstrations by others can serve to help us realize what is true.

Socrates talks about true opinions acquired at a time when one is not a human being, in other words before birth. In other words, the human soul is born with certain "true opinions" which become knowledge through experiences in one's life. Whatever truth Socrates is talking about here I would say is part of "lineage" as Father teaches it.

And I think that the truth given to human beings at creation -- the truth about goodness, justice, beauty, happiness, love, peace, joy and all positive things (God-like things) is within the original mind (as the term is used in the Divine Principle). I think we, as fallen people, have to strive to recover or, as Socrates might say, recollect what our original mind already knows.

2nd generation are part of God's lineage. Therefore, our original minds are clearer and can more easily tap into the truth about God and all God-like things.

Another beautiful thing about this argument is that Socrates argues that we must search for the things we do not know. In a way, that's what I would like to propose to the rest of the members of this group. We may not "know" everything -- but surely God has already given us the answers in our original minds. Therefore, let's search for the truth within our original minds through our debates.

Quote from my version of this dialogue (which may differ from the online version):

SOCRATES: ...I would contend at all costs both in word and deed as far as I could that we will be better men, braver and less idle, if we believe that one must search for the things one does not know, rather than if we believe that it is not possible to find out what we do not know and that we must look for it.

The quote above basically encapsulates my view toward Father's teachings. I want to know what Father is saying. I don't want to simply believe him or his words. I want to know the truth he is speaking - in other words, I want to experience it for myself.

Another beautiful quote that gives insight to Socrates' thought:

SOCRATES: ... you do not even attempt to rule yourself, in order that you may be free, but you try to rule me...

Here, he is saying that true freedom is obtained when one has true dominion over oneself -- a concept that is certainly implied if not outright dictated in the Divine Principle. He is also speaking of the illusion of ruling over others.. the illusion of "power" and "influence" and "control"...

The first point that Socrates makes about virtue is that it must be a "kind of wisdom". Later, he asks Meno, "Virtue then, as a whole or in part, is wisdom?" [By the way, wisdom and knowledge are used almost interchangeably in this dialogue.] Later, Socrates says, "... true opinion is in no way a worse guide to correct action than knowledge." Then, "... knowledge is prized higher than correct opinion, and knowledge differs from correct opinion in being tied down." Later, "... because it cannot be taught, virtue no longer seems to be knowledge?"

Later, Socrates says, "... if we were right in the way in which we spoke and investigated in this whole discussion, virtue would be neither inborn nor taught, but comes to those who possess it as a gift from the gods which is not accompanied by understanding..."

Back down to earth now. Think of people who you consider good (of good character) - how did they become good? Was it through knowledge? I don't think an Ivy League education can make someone into a good person. Is it inborn? Is it a gift "from the gods"?

Father talks about a true lineage, which does imply that goodness comes through a true lineage. I'll bet this point will be debated heavily in this thread. So let me leave my thoughts at this point and I will come back to this discussion later.