The Words of the Durst Family

Father's trial -- Challenges American justice

Mose Durst, Joy Pople, Bruce Brown, Hideo Oyamada, Hal and Lynda Mckenzie
June 1982


Mother at East Garden, saying goodbye to Yeon Jin Nim, before leaving for the courthouse. Yeon Jin Nim feels strongly that she should accompany True Parents whenever they go out, but often it is impossible

The trial

The federal prosecution of our True Father on tax evasion charges, leading to a jury trial and a verdict of guilty on May 18, had nothing to do with income taxes or with the pursuit of justice. It was a politically-motivated persecution of a man whose only crime was to bring God's word to this nation.

The government doesn't spend over a million dollars on a full-scale criminal prosecution, including 16 months of grand jury hearings and a crack team of prosecutors, just to collect back taxes. The government spent at least $1.3 million on the trial and the grand jury investigation that preceded it -- more than ten times the tax revenue that Father allegedly failed to pay the government.

In most cases in which the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) questions a person's tax returns, the matter is settled out of court or in civil proceedings. But in Father's case, the Justice Department used the tax issue as an excuse to launch a full-scale criminal trial.

The fact is that the IRS, the Justice Department and other government agencies, goaded by certain members of Congress, have been investigating Father for over a decade without finding any wrongdoing. Finally they came up with income tax evasion, a charge that has often been used for political purposes.

The charges against Father hinge on the ownership of $1.6 million in a Chase Manhattan bank account under Father's name, plus $50,000 in Tong II stock issued to him. We know that Father held this money in trust for the Church. He sought to increase the interest on the bank deposits by putting some of the funds into high-interest time deposit accounts. He also sought to invest in businesses which he hoped would establish a financial foundation for the Church. As for the Tong Il stock, he transferred it to Unification Church International and never made a single penny on it. The balance of the account was also transferred to UCI. For this "crime" he was convicted.

Government prosecutors called 30 witnesses and put thousands of documents into evidence, trying to prove to a jury that Father considered the funds his own personal money, to be used for private purposes. We all know the absurdity of that charge, because everything Father does is for the public purpose.

Nevertheless, the prosecutors succeeded in swaying the jury into returning a guilty verdict. This was a jury that the defense lawyers never wanted because of widespread prejudice against Father. Father's lawyers had unsuccessfully moved to have the judge decide the case without a jury, but the prosecution insisted on a jury -- and no wonder. They knew that a jury would be more pliant and more easily prejudiced against Father than a judge would be.

The judge, during jury selection, wondered if the jury was really competent to handle the complex issues involved. He said, "In attempting to get an unbiased jury, the leaning has been heavily towards people who don't read much, don't talk much and don't know much because they are obviously the persons who start..ff with the least bias."

Having gotten the jury it wanted, the prosecution spared no expense in bombarding them with what the defense called "show biz." They had dozens of expensive-looking colored charts made up which showed all the deposits and other transactions of the account. They called in a handwriting expert and flew in a paper chemist from California to testify about the date certain documents were signed.

Most of this documentation showed no wrong-doing. There was never any question that the money was deposited in the Chase account under Father's name or that he invested the money in time deposits or in business ventures. However the prosecution's purpose in offering all the documentation was not to inform, but to distract the jury from the main issues and to overwhelm them with sheer weight of evidence.

In addition, the prosecution used an argument typical of deprogrammers -- that all Moonies are liars. Prosecutor Martin Flumenbaum at one point tried to introduce the old "heavenly deception" myth used by deprogrammers, backing it up with out-of-context quotes taken from old editions of "Master Speaks." However, the judge studied the quotes and could find no evidence that they justified lying and cheating and so prevented Flumenbaum from making that argument.

Nevertheless, every time a Church member took the witness stand, Flumenbaum would ask questions like, "Do you call him Master? Did you ever hear him say members should be obedient to him? Would you do anything to protect Rev. Moon?" and so on.

As Father's lawyer Charles Stillman pointed out in his summation, "Any Moonie who gave helpful testimony, the government says are out because they lied; the accountants were lied to; anything that they [Moonies] might say that was helpful to Rev. Moon's case doesn't count -- and that's case closed."

What did the evidence actually show? It showed that Japanese and European members, bringing money with them or fundraising in the United States, gave the money to Mr. Kamiyama, which was then deposited in the Chase account. According to the testimony of Mrs. Tacco Hose, Korean and Japanese leaders of the Church at a meeting in San Francisco in 1972 decided to open up such a bank account to help fund the work of the Church. They decided that the money should be deposited in Father's name because, as the leader of the international Church, he was the one most trusted by foreign members.

What was the money used for? As Stillman said in his summation, "If it was Rev. Moon's personal money, one would anticipate there would be wholesale personal expenditures. On the other hand if the money is being spent for the Church then either he is a very generous man, not deducting this on his tax return, or the money belonged to the Church and he was responsible for it."

The small portion of the money that went for Father's personal use was recorded on his income tax forms, as it should be. "Joe Tully took the personal expenses and put them on Rev. Moon's [1973] tax return as income to him," Stillman said.

"The majority of funds disbursed from the Chase account were spent for Church purposes. Over $1.1 million. That is one way to tell who owned the account," he said.

Ultimately, Father turned over the entire balance of the account to Unification Church International in 1975. He even got back $16,000 interest that had accumulated on a certificate of deposit, but gave that to UCI also. "Because the certificate was in the name of Rev. Moon, he got the check -- $16,000," Stillman said. "Did he put it in his pocket? No. The money was deposited to the Unification Church International."

The government kept harping on the fact that a formal corporate body representing the international movement didn't exist at the time Father filed his tax returns. According to the prosecution, since the Unification Church international didn't exist, Father didn't represent any larger agency, just himself.

We all know how ridiculous that is. Of course the international Unification Church movement exists, even if there is no formal corporation by that name. As evidence for this, the defense introduced proclamations signed by mayors and governors during Father's speaking tour in 1973 and 1974 that said he was appearing on behalf of the Unification Church international. In 1975, Father's accountants wrote in a memo, "Status of Rev. Moon as ordained licensed minister: The Rev. Moon is founder and chief advisor of the Unification Church international." Finally, there was a letterhead from Rev. Moon to the Chase Manhattan Bank that said, "Rev. Moon, Founder Unification Church International."

The judge explained to the jury that "the lack of a formal corporation does not prevent a religious movement from being the beneficial owner of property held in the name of another." He also said, "It is unnecessary for there to be a written agreement between Rev. Moon and the International Unification Church movement providing he would hold the time deposits and the Tong Il stock on behalf of the Church. All that is required is that both parties to the relationship understand that the first person is holding the property for the benefit of the second, and you can find such an understanding on the basis of the parties' conduct."

To try to prove that the money in the Chase account was Father's alone, and that he knowingly filed false tax returns, the government introduced a great deal of evidence to show that Father took a personal interest in the financial affairs of the Church and that his signature was needed to authorize large expenditures. Part of their strategy was to depict Father as a man more interested in business than in spiritual work.

However, as Stillman said in his summation, "The government said Rev. Moon was in control of the Chase account. But the fact that somebody is in control of something doesn't mean you own it, that it is yours.

"The government says Rev. Moon was most interested in the money. Just the money... that's all he cared about. Why shouldn't he be responsible? Would it be better if he ignored it?

"There were young people working on these things, and he felt obliged to participate to help them, to advise them to review how they were spending the Church's money," Stillman said.

Of course we know that Father's main role in the Church is spiritual. But the prosecution deliberately ignored or sought to denigrate Father's spiritual work.

As for the charge that Father and Mr. Kamiyama conspired to cheat the government out of taxes, that notion is madness if Father honestly held the money for the Church. Father never had any obligation to report the money on his tax returns if he was holding it for the Church. And how could Father have sought to deceive the government when he put the money under his name in the largest bank in the world, where the interest would be automatically reported to the government every year?

On his 1974 and 1975 tax returns, Father hired the accounting firm of Peat Marwick Mitchell and Co. to prepare his tax returns. As Stillman said, "You really have to be somewhat crazy, if you are out to cheat, to go to Peat Marwick and Mitchell. What if they ask the wrong questions?"

The notion of conspiracy is also crazy considering Mr. Kamiyama could not even speak English at that time and Father's knowledge of English was limited. The prosecution never presented one iota of evidence that Mr. Kamiyama and Father even knew or understood the content of the tax returns, even if they could read them.

The prosecution made a big deal out of alleged "backdated" documents and a "family fund" ledger submitted to the government to account for the source of the funds, saying these were "phony" documents designed to deceive the government. They went to great expense, even flying in a chemist from California to prove that the paper of certain documents couldn't have been manufactured on the date they were signed.

However, these documents were attempts by Church members to reconstruct transactions that occurred years ago which they didn't record at the time. As Stillman said, "Assume for the moment that an event occurred and you didn't have the right piece of paper and you wrote down the document today, and you wrote down yesterday's date or least year's date. That's not a crime." In fact, many backdated documents introduced in evidence, such as corporate minutes of Tong Il, were prepared by lawyers hired by the Church. In other cases, the evidence showed that actual events had occurred which corresponded to what the documents said, even though the documents were created after the fact.

Finally, amid all the mass of circumstantial evidence the government presented, they could not present one bit of direct evidence that Father or Mr. Kamiyama conspired to cheat anyone. Even their key witness, former Church member Michael Warder, had to admit under cross-examination that Father never told him to do anything wrong.

The unfairness of the entire case is so rampant that we fully expect Father to be vindicated by a higher court. The pattern of court cases the Church has faced in the past has always been one of losing in the lower courts, but being vindicated on appeal to a higher, more objective court.

Change climate of public opinion

The United States government is unique in the extent to which it is influenced by public opinion. If politics is behind the prosecution of Father, it is clear that the climate of public opinion against Father contributed to that. Our lawyers, in arguing against jury, cited a poll they conducted which showed that three out of four New Yorkers were hostile to our Father.

If we American members had succeeded in laying a firmer foundation through witnessing and home church work, that situation could have been reversed. By rights the public should be on Father's side because he is doing the most for America. As long as public opinion is against Father, the Church will always be vulnerable to government persecution.

Throughout this trial Father has been fully confident of victory. He has sought to comfort us, telling us not to worry. Once again, our Father has proven in this way his wonderfully giving and loving heart.

However, we American members of the Church, myself in particular, must take ultimate responsibility for this persecution, recognizing that it would never have occurred if we had laid a stronger foundation.

It was not Father that was on trial, but in the eyes of God it was America that was being judged. The American justice system was being challenged by this case to overcome the unrighteousness that has dominated the recent politics of this nation. America's Constitution was inspired by God to protect freedom of religion so that God's will could be done in this nation at this most important time in history. The political persecution of our True Father stands in direct violation of God's will. As Americans, we must take responsibility if America ultimately rejects His son.

Therefore I feel I must personally repent and apologize to God and our True Parents for America's injustice against the one who came to save this country. Our True Parents came to America possessing only the wealth of Heavenly Father's love, the wisdom of the Principle and the caring, absolutely giving hearts of parents. They adopted us into their family, with all our youth and tremendous shortcomings -- trying to teach us, love us into being true sons and daughters of God. They have shown us that when you truly love someone with God's love, there is no wrong great enough to break that bond of love... it can only grieve the heart that gave the love. And so it is with America. Father and Mother still love America in spite of the pain and mistreatment that this nation has given them. They have given this country their most precious possession -- us, their children.

This trial, therefore, should spur us on to greater efforts to win the hearts of Americans. The only way to do that is to follow the path that Father has outlined -- the path of love and service to God and mankind, shedding tears, sweat and blood to realize the victory of home church.

We have not yet begun to fight
Dr. Mose Durst

I come to bring you blessings from True Parents. I've come to bring you encouragement from True Parents.

As I was waiting in the anteroom of the court following the verdict, with tears in my eyes, Father came out and smiled. "Don't worry," he told me. "No problem." Then he said, "What was it that one famous American said, `We have not yet begun to fight.' I like that."

When Jesus was arrested, he was abandoned by all his followers. We stand totally united with True Parents. We are going to blitz the world with the truth. If the government uses agencies to go after Rev. Moon, it does it at the violation of civil and religious rights. We are going to push this message until our Father is vindicated.

Every major case our Church has lost on a lower court level, we have always finally won in the higher courts: these cases have involved kidnapping, fundraising and property taxes. We have won favorable decisions in the U.S. Supreme Court this year on the first two issues. The recent property tax decision in our favor by a New York court is the broadest decision on religion ever made by a U.S. court.

Father is moving forward with great power, zeal, energy and love. He has not diminished one iota from his determination to go forward. People have left the Church in the past when Father was arrested, but Father has always been vindicated, and our Church always moves forward.

Our unity and our solidarity will prove whether we are worthy of God's blessing. God and True Parents want to see how worthy we are. Remember Father's words to us today, "Don't worry." We have a long way to go; we have not yet begun to fight.

Our destiny is clear. The road has been paved with the blood, sweat and tears of True Parents. The unity of Korea, Japan and America is the key to our success. Father has been persecuted and endured suffering in Korea and Japan, and now through his suffering in America, he is bringing about that unity in the most profound way.

If ever I have been in love with Father, it has been during these past eight weeks. After the verdict was announced in the court, Father gave a big smile. His lawyers were sad, and came to apologize before Father, but it was Father who comforted them!

Father is moving forward through persecution, and we can move forward in the same way. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. The world has perfect fear and has cast out all love. But we have perfect love that can cast out all fear. We are taking the loving road.

The hardest thing in the world is to be a member of the Unification Church. We come to bring the greatest value in the world, and, come hell or high water, we will go to heaven.

We are not running away -- we are looking for a fight. If Father has made anything out of us, he has made us great fighters. Great lovers are great fighters. This is the time we can show our love by fighting.

The world is learning about God the hard way. It has to learn by watching us! We have been trying to get on national television for a long time, and now we are!

Courage is very rare in the world. The jury took the simple way out -- but it was the stupid way. Let us take the simple and intelligent way -- corner tables, home church, etc. Let us go forward with courage.

Decision to be appealed
Bruce Brown

Our lawyers felt the issues involved in this trial were too complex and that people had too many initial prejudices to be able to come to any kind of fair decision as jurors. We conducted a poll prior to the beginning of the trial in order to determine what kind of people might make good jurors. The object of picking a jury is to find the people who will make up the best jury. But the results of the poll indicated that it would be impossible to find a fair jury. Forty-five percent of the people polled in New York said they would throw Rev. Moon into jail, if they were given a chance, even for no reason!

Judge Goettel was initially receptive to our feelings, so we waived the defendants' right to a jury trial. In such a case, the government has to agree to the defendants' request for a non-jury trial, but in our case, the government refused to do so, for reasons that became obvious later.

Judge Goettel wanted to grant our request, but he did not feel that the law allowed him to do so. We were, however, allowed an unusually broad series of questions to use in selecting jurors, and the judge eliminated people who exhibited outright hostility.

It soon became obvious that among the people who professed not to have heard about the Church -- or at least not to have strong feelings about the Church -- the few open-minded or thoughtful people who appeared were eliminated by the prosecution lawyers. As a result, instead of being able to pick the kind of jurors we wanted, we were left with the 12 people to whom we had the least objections. None of them were the kind of jurors we would have preferred.

The prosecution depended on confusing the jury with tremendous amounts of unnecessary documents or prejudiced inferences, such as referring to Father as "Master" or "True Parents" in a sarcastic tone, taking out of context certain prejudicial quotations from Father's speeches, such as the need to follow him absolutely, etc. In the end, it became clear that the government, in asking for a jury trial and developing the case in such a manner, got the result they wanted.

Sentencing is scheduled for July 14. The judge has agreed that the current bail terms will remain in effect throughout the appeal process. That means that Father and Mother and Mr. Kamiyama are free on bail, pending resolution of the appeal.

Then we will file a motion of appeal to the Circuit Court, the next higher court, which may agree to hear the case or refuse to do so. An appeal is quite different from the original trial; it does not determine the innocence or guilt of the accused, but rather evaluates how the case was tried. Judges, not a jury, listen to arguments by lawyers from both sides, and they make their decisions after considering the laws relevant to the issue and how they were applied in the trial. It may take about a year for the Circuit Court to rule on this case. If our case is lost on the first appeal, we will continue to appeal, on up to the Supreme Court of the United States.

Appeals courts usually hand down one of three types of decisions:

Verdict sustained; that decision can be appealed to a still higher court.

Verdict reversed and case dismissed; an ideal situation for the appellant.

Verdict reversed and case remanded to lower court; the appellate court redefines how the law applies to the situation, and a new trial begins in the original court, to be decided by the original judge.

We haven't done enough
Hideo Oyamada

The Japanese family has been making prayer and cold shower conditions for Father's trial. I have heard Father say in Japan, Germany and Korea that we failed to give sufficient support to God's providence in America. So we have to repent and refresh our heart, attitude and lifestyle. We must renew ourselves and be united.

What was Father's motivation in coming to America? God inspired him to come. He is not looking for any profit from America; he has invested his blood, sweat and tears here. International members have died here. According to God's providence, without America, Christianity and the democratic world will perish. We have not come here for profit.

The court room is a good setting for a workshop. St. Peter and St. Paul faced court cases and found them to be ideal settings for witnessing!

Closing arguments of the prosecution and defense
Joy Pople

In order to help Unification Church members understand some of the key issues raised in the recent trial of Father and Mr. Kamiyama, we offer this summary of points made by the prosecution in its closing arguments on May 10 and 11, with responses made by defense lawyers Charles Stillman (Father's legal counsel) and Andrew Lawler (Mr. Kamiyama's legal counsel).

Issues raised by the Prosecution

1. Trying to influence the jury by sheer abundance of evidence, the prosecution used more than one thousand documents and exhibits, over the course of one month of long and tedious testimony, to try to give the impression that Rev. Moon and Mr. Kamiyama were guilty of conspiracy to defraud the U.S. government and failure to file proper tax returns for the years 1973, 1974 and 1975.

Stillman's response: "The main purpose of all the documents was to keep our eyes off the main issues, to distract. What is the purpose of all the charts? It's pure and simple -- show business."

2. The prosecution tried to show that because the account at the Chase Manhattan Bank was in Rev. Moon's name, he controlled the money and was concerned about how it was spent -- therefore, it obviously belonged to him and he should have paid tax on the interest.

Stillman's response: "We have to look to see how this money was spent, to make a rational decision as to whose money it really was. The fact that somebody is in control of something doesn't mean he owns it, that it is his. The majority of funds disbursed from the Chase account were spent for Church purposes. Over $1,100,000. That is one way to tell who owned the account.

"When interest accumulated on the certificate of deposit [that interest] was deposited to the Unification Church International. If it was Rev. Moon's personal money, one would anticipate that there would have been wholesale personal expenditure. If the money was being spent for the Church, then either (1) he is a very generous man, not deducting this on his tax return, or (2) as we have said to you from the beginning, the money belonged to the Church and he was responsible for it.

"The government says what was most important to Rev. Moon was just the money. Why shouldn't he be responsible? Would it be better if he ignored it? There were young people working on these things, and he felt obliged to participate, to help them, to advise them, to review how they were spending the Church's money."

3. The prosecution went to great lengths to demonstrate that some of the Church documents that had been subpoenaed for evidence were backdated, and that ledgers were drawn up after the fact to account for money going in and out of the Chase Manhattan account -- a fact which the defense acknowledged in the beginning.

Stillman's response: "There are two possibilities [or possible motivations for doing such a thing]. One, I backdate a document to create a piece of paper for an event that never occurred. On the other hand, assume for the moment that an event occurred and you didn't have the right piece of paper [at the time]; you wrote the document today, and you put yesterday's date or last year's date. Is that a federal crime?"

4. The prosecution asserted that there was no such thing as a Unification Church international or an international Unification Church movement in the years in question (1973-75), and that Rev. Moon did not represent a larger agency in handling the funds in the Chase Manhattan bank account.

Stillman's response: "During the period of time when no formal corporation was formed for the Unification Church International, for the international movement, when money came, when investments were made, when money was transferred to the American church, when properties were purchased, we refer to it as the Unification Church international -- little i.

"We introduced proclamations to show that in 1973 and 1974, as Rev. Moon travelled the breadth of the U.S., it was recognized that he was appearing for the Unification Church international, not [yet] a formal corporate body. But that was the concept that was being built.

"In 1973, 1974, the concept, the notion, the existence of the international Unification Church movement as a viable, living, breathing thing was under way [taking shape]. There is a letterhead in evidence, 'Rev. Sun Myung Moon, Founder,

Unification Church International,' in a letter to Mr. Galbraith at the bank. In 1975 our accountants wrote in a memo, 'Status of Rev. Moon as ordained minister. The Rev. Moon is the founder and chief spiritual advisor of the Unification Church International!"

5. The prosecution tried to show that there was a pattern of covering up money and transactions. It also accused the Church of being dishonest in dealing with its own accounting firm.

Stillman's response: "If Rev. Moon was trying to hide the money, why would he open an account in his own name? The Chase Manhattan Bank account was in the name of Sun Myung Moon. There is no issue in this case on this subject. Because the account was in his name, he signed all the checks and documents. If he wanted to hide the money, why put it in the biggest bank in New York? He opened time deposits so that the Church's money could earn interest. The bank itself totals cumulative interest and sends it to the IRS on their own.

"Peat Marwick and Mitchell did work for the early Church and for Tong Il [a company formed to import and distribute ginseng products]. It is the largest accounting firm in the world. If they had questions, if there were things that bothered them, all they had to do was go to their other department and say, 'Look, we are looking into this issue; can you help us on this?' You really have to be somewhat crazy, if you are out to cheat, to go to Peat Marwick and Mitchell. What if they ask the wrong question? [For their services they got] $4,350, and [do you think] they didn't have to ask something?"

6. The prosecution charged that Rev. Moon acquired stock in Tong Il and did not pay for it, and that the acquisition of stock was not reported on his 1973 tax return.

Stillman's response: "Merchandise was transferred, stock was issued in Rev. Moon's name. The purchase of stock is not a reportable event on a tax return. What happens to the stock? It goes to One-Up, part of the Unification Church International. How much does he get when he transfers the stock? Not one cent. It was received for the Church. He held it for the Church."

7. The prosecution charged a conspiracy, that Rev. Moon, with Mr. Kamiyama's aid, filed false tax returns for 1973, 1974 and 1975.

Stillman's response: "In the beginning, money was taken from that bank account and spent for personal expenses of Rev. Moon. And Joe hilly took the personal expenses and put them on Rev. Moon's tar return as income to him. [These personal expenses totaled $14,000 for 1973, and Joe Dilly made out the tax return for that amount]. If your employer gave you a special benefit, even though it does not come in a special salary check, that special benefit is taxable to you.

"If you believed it was the Church's money and there was no obligation to report it on the tax return, and the return was filed honestly -- then the notions of conspiracy are sheer madness."

Lawler's response: "Joseph Tully testified that he prepared the return to the best of his ability, based on the information he gathered, but he was further quite clear that he did not obtain any of the information from Mr. Kamiyama which is charged as the false information on that return. Did Mr. Kamiyama take responsibility for asking Mr. Dilly to prepare the return? Yes. Was it based on information directly from Mr. Kamiyama? No.

"Instead of filing on a calendar year [January through December], the way all of us file, for reasons which apparently are based on a misunderstanding of the way the system worked, he filed on a fiscal year, that is, April to March. And he did one other thing: he mailed the return to the IRS without obtaining the Rev. Moon's signature.

"Now those two facts are significant, because the government claims that by October-November of 1974, when the return was prepared and filed, this conspiracy to mislead the IRS was well underway. And I cannot imagine a better way of attracting attention, of making sure this return is noticed, than the way it was done. Because of the mistakes that were made in the very filing, there was no conspiracy underway, then or ever."

Assertions made by the Defense

A. The defense held that all churches commonly make investments to broaden sources for additional income. The Unification Church is not alone in this practice.

Stillman's explanation: "Many of the major churches in this country own businesses. Ask yourselves whether churches engaging in wide-ranging activities could survive on contributions. It doesn't happen. They need to have other sources of income. This Church had some businesses and Rev. Moon was involved in helping his Church with these business activities. He is the leader and he has responsibility."

B. The defense asserted that mutual cooperation as a means to achieve a higher purpose is an essential aspect of living the Principle. The Unification Church in other countries loaned members and money to the American Unification Church as an expression of this principle.

Stillman's explanation: "It became apparent to the people involved [in the direction of the American Unification Church] that the only chance for success they had was outside support. There was really no one here, there was no money available. So it was decided that people from other countries, and in particular, Japanese, would come to the United States to help with their own human efforts and with money. The Japanese didn't know the Americans, the Americans didn't know the Japanese. Who was the central figure? Sun Myung Moon was not only the central figure, but the only person it made sense to say, `You hold the money, you use the money.'

"To be a trustee, to hold something for someone else, you don't have to have a 12-page legal document -- or a one-page legal document. You don't need a single scrap of paper. If you went to one of your loved ones and said, `Look, I want you to hold this for me, take care of it for me,' that is a trust relationship recognized by law.

"The government said you don't loan from a church to a church. These loans were made out with no interest, and 99 years to pay. [International Church leaders were] saying, 'Look, we will put some money over here to help you, and when it is our turn, you come and help us.' Nobody was saying, `Let's collect our loans now 

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